I want to know everyones thoughts?

To all,

Well 9th edition is here, but please don't get excited its really not a improvement. I'm posting the link to the NERO International forums where they have the PDF for it for download in black and white.

http://www.nerolarp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14978

Currently there is no printed book out yet, but looks like they will be going through with it. We will be playing 8th edition up to 1-1-2012 for the rest of the gaming year.

I would like to know my clients thoughts on this, my personal thoughts is after this year I won't be playing the game until these improvments are corrected. But I will gladly run for all of my clients and work with the rules they have presented in this edition.

If people are unhappy with this out come, there might be other options. But until I know everyone's thoughts I'm not exploring any of these options, because this chapter is yours as well.

~T

Barbaions start out lvl 2 with a slay? Limited waylay? fighter only get 20 armor? THIS WHOLE THING IS BULLCRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*shiver* ninth ed....any other larps other then nero that can be runned?

*blink*...Whos bright idea was it to put ti tie in the new rule book! Lol

Ti Tie wrote:*blink*...Whos bright idea was it to put ti tie in the new rule book! Lol

That was my idea, actually.

On August, 2009 they put out a call for photos for illustrating the rulebook. I sent about two dozen of the best pics from the NERO Kentucky picture collection that Sheena had taken. Apparently they decided to use one photo of Ti Tie and one of Cho Kai in the rulebook, which Sheena gets photographer credit for.

Joseph,

Lol, from my first event and when we had to use the large cooking pot on site for a mirror? Ah, fun times.

Okay Rei and I read through some of this book and honestly, I don't see anything that bad about it. The 20 armor thing is kind of a drag but I assume monsters can be scaled down so that won't matter that much, right? I see a lot of improvements; a lot of cutting down on the confusion, and a whole lot more of placing of things where they should be. Maybe I'm missing the point? Who knows...but since we'll be playing with 8.0 and its play-tests for the rest of the year, I guess Travis will have plenty of time to decide where to take us.

Despite what it says, this was written by Ben/Katatherick, lol

NO ITS HORRIBLE!!!!! LIMITED WAYLAY?? THAT REALLY MAKES ME MAD

Hmmmm

I guess you never got the the Barbarian Slay part yet? Yes, 100 point slay for 10 build, which means I will have scholars with slays and I've already been contacted by people that want a forge for next year to barbarian just for the slay. So, I guess Barbarians will take over the world how can any force go toe to toe with them 100 points is alot of damage.

Waylay is based on level must be bought for every 5 for an extra one. Plus, no helmet protection and can be used as long as you see someone back. No expecting waylay and you can now block it with parry, dodge, magic armor etc...

All armor not breeched!!!! I guess Arvil is out of business now for armor. Unless I throw a destroy then its gone, yes gone no more tag. Old version it just goes to 0 and then you refit it and it loses two points like any breech. This means the same for creatures no breeching armor and if they know this then be prepared for destroys.

Gases can't be thrown unless you have enough alchemy to make it. So to throw any gas you need at least nine levels. This is going to be rough for people that do specialty alchemy later that is LCO.

Healing Pool is now down to 150 and its not based on level, you will need it. Because.......see below

All slays are 100 and Blade Furys 200. Yea, that means the creatures I have in my book that has a 40 point slay because its a Owl bear with both claws now has two 100 point slays. I saw Ben and Rachel you mentioned about scaling?

Disarm is now Fumble and Light is now Illumination......really did this need to be changed???

Starting 20 armor thing for fighters, eh is ok. But a fighter can buy 40 more wear extra armor, but they are maxed at 45 points??? Proof reading?

You start at level two and the chart goes from 1-30 lol can we just make level two level one?

There is more, but I can live with most of these changes just a few I'm in open discuss about right now. I'm not the only owner asking have you even playtested some of these wacked out changes and the answer is no we have not <hits head>

~T

We did an earlier version of the 9th ed at indiana. Me and david will look at the rules. if they did not change what they had earlier..sorry, nero wont be our game any more. We are still recovering. We will make a real comment about it soon.

June,

You guys know me I will work with in what they have create LCO what we need, its just like ok why all these changes to things that worked.

~T

I threw up a little bit when i read this. I felt that fighters had a little to much armor in 8th ed but now it seems that anyone can have as much or more armor then a fighter for just about 10 build leaving the fighter class almost useless, a Templar with some build in wear extra armor will beat out a fighter every time it seems. also the new waylay ability makes it nearly useless, right now to prevent a waylay you just need a helmet or a threshold, now to block it you need to have no metabolism, so all plots will throw out will be undead sorry alc rouges you are now as useless as fighters. *face palm*

I have not read the entire rule book, just skimmed through it seeing things that effect Arvil. I must say I do like the new rule book, it is well written, lots of a nice pictures of different characters, and seems to be grammatically correct. That said (or typed) so of the rules SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What T mentioned and a few others have totally changed the game, I thought the intent of the 9th edition was to balance things out and correct a few glitches, not totally change the game!

Rant over.

While I do have personal opinion on this, I am going to with-hold them, until I personally have the opportunity to compare 8th to 9th and read then cover to cover! ..... But in the mean time!

---- Here is a change log so that you can quickly compare things!!

Change Log, Nero 8th Edition rules to 9th Edition rules
Compiled by Steven under the legal exception of Fair Use for the purposes of commentary and criticism. [From National Forums]

P14
Added: Barbarian Slay
Changed: Dwarf Disadvantage from “Cannot use Two handed weapons” to “Cannot use Polearm, Staff, Two handed blunt, Two handed sword”
Changed: Dwarf advantage from “Armorsmith and Weaponsmith” to “Smithing”, reflecting the combining of the two skills.
Added: Half Ogre, Half Orc Strong arm (From Racial skills playtest).
Added: Hobling Dodge (From Racial skills playtest, cost increased to 12 BP)
Removed: Sarr Disadvantage “Cannot buy Waylay”

P22
Changed: Unconscious lasts one minute instead of ten minutes.

P23
Editing: Table 2-2 unusable in monochromatic. Would suggest cross-hatching for monochromatic charts.
Editing: Two contradicting uses of the word 'interrupted' in sentence describing the use of First Aid on a Dying person is confusing, in “continue the death countdown from where it was interrupted by the First Aid” replace interrupted with froze or paused to prevent confusion with the line “the aid is considered to be interrupted”.

P24
Changed: Resurrections take five minutes instead of fifteen.
Changed: Corpses appear to be 'indestructible' until they dissipate.

P25
Changed: Resurrection follow “Resurrection Modification” playtest (Non-production skills are renewed, Formal skills are renewed).
Changed: Resurrected characters have no in-game items (excepting spirit locked ones) but are clothed.
Added: First Event Death Errata is added.

P26
Changed: New characters start at 30 build (Previously Errata, rolled into rulebook)

P28
Added: Limited Reset playtest is an option for chapters.

P30
Added: Barbarian Slay and Strong-Arm to table.
Changed: Hobling Dodge costs 12 BP.
Added: Harmonic skills (Manifold and Prepare Hearth) to Magic skills table (From Harmonics playtest).
Changed: Combined Armorsmith and Weaponsmith into Smithing.
Changed: Smithing costs 4 BP for Templars instead of 3 BP.

P31
Added: Dexterity Armor (at 3 BP for all classes)
Changed: Wear Extra Armor cost increased to 3 BP for Fighter, Rogue and Templar.
Changed: Critical Attacks cost 3 BP for Templars. Weapon Proficiency costs 6 BP for Templars. Total cost for +1 weapon prof for Templar is 18 BP, compared to 15 BP for first, 20 BP for second and 25 for third and beyond.
Changed: Critical Slay/Parry costs 13 BP for Templars (instead of 15 BP)
Changed: Master Critical Attack cost 4 BP for Templars (instead of 4, 4, 6, 6, 6...)
Changed: Master Proficiency cost 6 BP for Templars (instead of 7, 8, 8, 8...)
Changed: Master Critical Slay/Parry costs 15 BP (instead of 18 BP)
Added: One Handed Block (0 BP cost, from One Handed Block playtest)
Added: Stop Thrust (cost 0 BP for first, 2 BP for additional every two +2 Profs)
Changed: Waylay is a Uses per day skill at (3 BP for Rogues, 6 BP for other classes. Requires 5 character levels per purchase after first)

P32
Changed: Primary school Formal Magic costs 6 BP for Templars (instead of 4 BP).
Changed: Secondary School Formal Magic costs 10 BP for Templars (instead of 8 BP).
Added: Trade Mastery levels. Get one 'Master' Production level for every production level if you have at least ten base production levels.
Added: Material craftsman levels. Extra levels of production which cost 1 silver piece per level to a max of your levels of production skill. Production component treasure may be used instead of buying with silver.

P33
Changed: Alchemy requires enough Alchemy to make the poison to throw or apply it.

P34
Changed: Assassinate does base 100 damage. Every fourth Assassinate deals 200 damage.
Added: Barbarian Slay. May only be purchased once, deals 100 damage, does not count against limit of Slay/Parry per two Proficiencies.
Changed: Master Craftsman earn more coin than normal craftsman (as per Master craftsman playtest).

P35
Changed: Slay does base 100 damage. Every fourth slay deals 200 damage.

P36
Changed: Dexterity has a 'well costumed' requirement.

P39
Removed: Removed from Healing Arts' legal questions were “Where you damaged by edged weapons or claws? Where you damaged by blunt weapons?”
Added: Hobling Dodge.
Added: Manifold.

P40
Added: Prepare Hearth

P42
Changed: Added Smithing, combing Armorsmith and Weaponsmith.
Added: Smithing Play-test partially added, including Silving Weapon (at an increased cost of 4 production levels for all weapons, plus 1 silver piece per linear inch), Strengthing a weapon (at an increased cost of 4 production levels for all weapons, plus a number of SR components), Enhanced Armor, Sharpened Armor and Rapid Refit.
Added: Stop Thrust.

P43
Added: Strong-arm
Changed: Waylay (Times per day usage, no surprise needed)

P44
Changed: Wear Extra Armor (increased BP cost, increases class limit by five, up to forty)

P46
Added: Cast on the Fly as a chapter option
Added: Soft foam balls allowed as spell packets
Change: Arrows allowed as yellow packets (possibly without streamers)

P47
Added: Meditation playtest.

P49-59
Formal Magic rules.

P56
Added: Logistics Formal magic rules.

P59
Added: Cantrip rules

P63
Change: Banish is both schools.
Removed: Greater Bless
Added: Calm
Added: Calm Animal
Added: Corruption
Change: Charm's duration to 5 minutes
Added: Charm Animal
Added: Circle of Harmony
Change: Circle of Power duration to 10 minutes.
Change: Control Undead duration to 5 minutes
Change: Create Undead duration to 5 minutes
Added: Displacement
Removed: Duplicate Ward Key
Change: Flame Blade to Elemental Blade
Added: Empathic Healing
Added: Extended Hearth
Change: Disarm to Fumble
Added: Guardian of the Four
Change: Light to Illumination
Change: Illumination duration to 5 days
Change: Imprison to 10 minutes.
Added: Improved Hearth
Added: Inspiration
Added: Lesser Divestiture and Lesser Investiture
Added: Mystic Lock
Change: Paralyze Duration to 5 minutes.

P64
Added: Refit Armor
Added: Regeneration
Added: Remove Drain (Invigorate)
Added: Remove Fear
Added: Remove Physical Affliction
Change: Restore Limb to Restore Limbs
Removed: Greater Shield
Added: Shun Animal
Change: Silence duration to 5 minutes
Added: Silver Aura
Change: Sleep duration to 5 minutes
Added: Stabilize
Added: Stone Bolt
Added: Tarry
Remove: Wall of Force
Removed: Wizard Lock

Change: Base Five Healing, Bless, Shield and Damage
Added: Priority table for Charm effects
Added: Blade Effects table

P64
Change: Numbers are part of inchant (as per Errata)

P67
Change: Banish is both schools.
Change: Bless increased to 5.
Added: Calm.

P68
Added: Calm Animal
Change: All Cause Wounds are base 5.

P69
Added: Charm Animal
Added: Circle of Harmony
Changed: Circle of Power duration to 10 minutes.

P70
Changed: Create Undead duration to 5 minutes. Death count paused. Body set to maximum (instead of half max)

P71
Change: All Cure Wounds are base 5.

P72
Change: Detect Magic determines school of magic detected.
Editing: Detect Magic example uses Greater Shield, a spell that was removed.

P73
Added: Displacement
Change: Flame Blade to Elemental Blade
Added: Empathic Healing

P74
Changed: Enchanted Blade doesn't deal greater damage, but lasts in the manner of a critical attack.
Changed: Endow increases damage by 3 for one swing. Delayed endow remains the same.
Changed: Enflame deals 20 damage, not strictly base 5.
Added: Extended Hearth
Changed: Disarm to Fumble. Fumble renders item usable for 5 seconds, does not require dropping.

P75
Changed: I Call Forth spells are base 5.

P75
Added: Guardian of the Four
Changed: Light to Illumination
Changed: Imprison duration to 10 minutes. Imprisoned creatures cannot be moved.

P76
Added: Improved Hearth
Added: Inspiration
Added: Lesser Divestiture
Added: Lesser Investiture

P77
Added: Mystic Lock (Ward for boxes). No key, requires investitures.
Changed: Paralyze duration to 5 minutes.

P78
Added: Refit Armor
Editing: Reflect Magic's usage of 'caster' needs to be better worded.
Added: Regeneration

P79
Added: Remove Drain
Added: Remove Fear
Added: Remove Physical Affliction
Changed: Restore Limb to Restore Limbs

P80
Changed: Shield gives five extra Armor points. Greater Shield is removed.
Added: Shun Animal.

P81
Added: Silver Aura
Added: Stabilize
Added: Stone Bolt
Added: Tarry

P82
Changed: Ward (no keys, investitures)
Changed: Weakness reduces damage swings by 5 (instead of 4)

P87
Added: Priority graph for protectives
Changed: Damage calls now have four possible parts.

P88
Added: Delivery Method vs Protective chart

P91
Added: Lesser attacks. 10 second duration.

P92
Removed: Acidic Skin/Acidic Blood
Removed: Bottles
Added: Focus special defense. Cannot disrupt some/all of creatures attacks.
Removed: Group Mind

P93
Added: Returns

P94
Added: Gates
Changed: Escape from <x> to Rip from <x>

P96
Changed: Weapon Traps: Costs 1 Production Level per 2 points of damage, max 40. Min size is the weapon phys rep.
Changed: Massive Mechanical Trap: Costs 1 Production Level per 4 points of damage, min 16, max 80. Min size 3” by 3” by 3”. If struck by phys rep, take damage.
Changed: Fire/Acid Trap: Costs 1 Production Level per 3 points of damage, min 12, max 60. Min size 216 cubic inches.
Changed: Explosive Traps: Costs 1 Production Level per 2 points of damage, minimum 30, max 60. Min size 216 cubic inches.
Changed: Gas Traps: Production levels equal to levels of Alchemy needed to make/throw gas. Min size 216 cubic inches.

P104
Added: List of all production items and how many levels of production are needed to make.
Changed: Weapons require twice the production levels of the Smithing Playtest to make. Armor follows the smithing playtest. Armor follows the Smithing Playtest. Scrolls and Potions follow the previous costs converted from Production points to Production Levels.

P105
Changed: Class armor limits, Fighter 20, Templar and Rogue 15, Scholar 10.
Changed: Armor phys rep values from Armor Suite playtest.

P106
Changed: Only the wearer can refit armor.
Added: Latex weapon rules.

P111
Added: Ultralight rules.

P114
Changed: “Potions must hold or appear to hold at least a minimum of a quarter ounce of liquid”.

P115
Added: Approved Shield blueprints
Changed: Allow chapters to make Mind effecting alchemy (such as Enslavement, Forget-It-Well) either not work at all or only against NPCs.

P116
Added: Alchemy chart with level of Alchemy needed to make (or apply or throw) specific poisons.
Removed: Dominate poison.
Removed: Euphoria Antidote.
Changed: Intoxicant cost increases to 1 Production level
Removed: Laugh poison
Removed: Love and Love Potion 9 poison
Removed: Slow poison poison.
Changed: Vorpal increases damage by 5 for the next X number of hits, based on the specific Vorpal coating.

P117
Changed: Berserk's duration to 5 minutes.
Changed: Cause Damage poisons are on Base 5.
Changed: Cure Damage to 5.
Changed: Charm's duration to 5 minutes.
Changed: Feeblemind's duration to 5 minutes.

P118
Changed: Hallucinoid's duration to 5 minutes
Changed: Liquid Light's duration to 5 days.
Changed: Nausea's duration to 5 minutes.
Changed: Paralyze's duration to 5 minutes.
Changed: Paranoia's duration to 5 minutes.
Changed: Sleep's duration to 5 minutes
Changed: Vertigo's duration to 5 minutes
Changed: Weakness' duration to 5 minutes.

I can't believe I am saying this, but...

I really don't think it is that bad. Plus we have been waiting for this rules update since 2000, haha... NERO 2k!

Seriously though, I can see where a few things here can be justified.

1. Thank God they didn't keep the spell disrupt rule that was in last years version of 9th edition. Then, any hit, whether blocked by protectives or not, would interupt the casters spell.

2. Players start at level 2. Thats fine. But what if you have scaled NPCs that are level 1? Level 1 goblin. Level 1 Peasant. Etc. So maybe they only have 15 build to work with and a few less body points.

3. Limited waylay. I think that you will actually see MORE successful waylays under the new rules. In my 13 years of playing this game, I have probably seen waylay work 5 times. The limited use of it does suck, but I don't know anyone who ever used it more than once or twice per day anyway. Plus, now there are more situations where it is likely to be successful. I honestly believe you will see it used successfully more now than ever. Magic armor always blocked it, but the dodge thing does weaken it, slightly.

Sure this will take away some of the neccessity to be sneaky, but what if you are a major clutz in real life, but you want to play a "sneaky" rogue? It doesn't take away from ones real life ability. If you are sneaky enough to pull it off, great. If you are a slow old guy with bad knees, well, thank goodness this is a Roleplaying game. Rogues were the one class that relies most on out of game skill. OOG ability to pick locks. OOG ability to be sneaky. You have to be able to use weapon like a fighter, throw packets (for gasses and scrolls) like a caster. So I really think this helps balance the OOG portion just a little.

4. Light is now Illumination. I am pretty sure this has something to do with the Tyran Cosmology. Having a light spell means you should also have a darkness spell. People were using light as a thrown spell that did damage to darkness elementals, which was technically against the rules. I think this is just a symantics thing to prevent confusion. Fumble however, I have no clue on.

5. Alchemy. I don't like it, but I can see why they did it. Powergamers, like myself, would buy just 3 levels of alchemy. Now we will need to buy 9 (for paralysis gas poisons ). At least we don't have to buy that 10th level to be able to use Forget-it-wells.

6. Barbarians with slays. So they get a slay for 20 less build than they would have got it anyway. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Thats 3 events max, and no prof to go along with it. So it is really cool once (technically twice with limited reset) per day. They will still be sleeping or hanging with their new best friends while the elves are fighting on, the dwarves are resisting whatever someone just tried to poison them with, the hoblings are quickly jumping out of the way, and they humans are standing around wondering why they are so lame.

Travis, At least you won't be seeing celestial scholars with slays!!!

7. The armor is still WAY better than when I started playing, so quit yer whinin' whippersnappers. Fighters will still be the tanks. The newer players will soon realize that the higher you get in levels, the less important the armor becomes (because the extra body makes up for it). Not having it break down will hurt the economy, but I am confident that plot can think of clever ways to fix that (shatters and acid and rust monsters, OH MY!)

8. The healing pool thing straight up sucks, BUT refer to #7

I think there are some good changes, and there are some things I don't like. I was hoping for base 10 celestial, it didn't happen, oh well, no big deal. I haven't read it all yet, but so far there is nothing I absolutely hate or that I think breaks the system. Sometimes it has to be played for a while to know if something is broken, but most things look more balanced than before.

Just my 2 cents, but I am all about giving it a try!!!

Noah

Josh,

Gypsy Curse was nerfed as well I'm sure you didn't see that yet or you would have stated about it. Also, no you wouldn't see alot of undead or golems. I can just have it to where it takes more then one to knock it out.

Adam,

I know I know I know, but I have already a clean up list of how to fix alot of things. Still working on a few of them so LARPing life can go on.

Noah,

Your a sell out remind me to increase the bounty on your head .

~T

Admin wrote:Josh,

Gypsy Curse was nerfed as well I'm sure you didn't see that yet or you would have stated about it. Also, no you wouldn't see alot of undead or golems. I can just have it to where it takes more then one to knock it out.
~T

I don't see how it was nerfed at all i can see how the rules were changed to make it harder to misuse the curse but not much else

Finally had a chance to sit down and look at the new rules. Here are my thoughts on the matter in order they appear in the book.

I approve of being unconscious was changed to one minute instead of 10.

I know many of you have issues with the Barbarian Slay...but as it states, this can only ever be bought Once. And it is a per day skill. So for a game they can only us it twice (unless death or spells changes that) I am ok with that skill. Not like a slay can not be blocked against with a simple magic armor or anything.

Dex armor..that one I am iffy on. it can now be bought 10 times, as apposed to the only 5 times, for a max of 20 by the way of the rules.

Waylay per day skill. I am ok with the per day skill and the new actions of it....but the cap of per 5 levels? That seems kind of pointless. It is the only skill that has a per level cap. (feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

having the required levels to use certain alchemy I approve of. If your going to be an alchemist put the levels into it.

Gypsy Curse....I don't agree with the cut down. This skill is for flavor of the game and as long as it does not effect combat skills it should be better the two characters.

Many casters I know have issue with the spell disruption....but casters are supposed to be tiny and not on the front line. If your caster is in the front line...something if wrong. I think its well balanced out with the Mediation spell being added for those that can get spells back if missed.

Not that this matters to anyone else...but Trap making skill...still looking for something other then it. To make the smallest explosive trap is 15 levels of create and for a small fire is 9.
Then they add that each box can no longer be smaller then a 216 ci. For those that don't do traps. That's a 14" by 14.5" box at least. Don't know about you...but I think many can see those easily. And are useless to carry around. I would like to see something else used with the create trap skill if possible, like tinkering or something.

Alchemy...the removal of the fun gases....I am not for it. I enjoy love potions and laughs. Though, I am a fan of the change to all the effects being 5 mins as apposed to 10.

Over all, not as bad as their first draft. I could play with it with some twiks but not a game killer.

Ti Tie wrote:
having the required levels to use certain alchemy I approve of. If your going to be an alchemist put the levels into it.

Alchemy...the removal of the fun gases....I am not for it. I enjoy love potions and laughs. Though, I am a fan of the change to all the effects being 5 mins as apposed to 10.

Im gonna have to agree with June, alchemy is useful if you have the levels. And as for the fun gasses, i think everyone will miss laughs when they were made slung at a stone elf.

And as for a face palm for alchemist rouges, I really do not see were there is one.

The change in armor is kinda upsetting, however for rouges we were already at 20. 5 points makes a deference but not a big one

June,

There is no spell distrubtion its the same as its all ways been into body lose spell better then I hit you now you lost the spell even if it was the templars shield. This good they removed this verison.

~T

*blink* I will go read that again, I thought it said different.

The only people that will care are the overpowered ones that have played for years and reached an absurdly high level. It's out of that comfort zone that's been there for years and years.

Vincient_Valicker wrote:The only people that will care are the overpowered ones that have played for years and reached an absurdly high level. It's out of that comfort zone that's been there for years and years.

Um I'm like level 6 and it's annoying to have rules that I've just finally learned change!

They are changing. Nothing you can do about it. Learn the new game and enjoy.